Your Thoughts on the Organized Church
May 26, 2008
Written by: Katie
So this conversation has come up many times in the last 8 months since Jeff and I left Arizona and traveled across the country to reside in the beautiful state of Missouri right in the middle of the Bible Belt. There are some things that people who have never lived here suppose. One of which is that when you are in the Bible Belt there are a plethora of great family encouraging, Bible teaching churches. That assumption would be wrong. We are quickly learning that unless you are an Assemblies of God or Baptist (nothing wrong with either of those, just we aren’t) then you may feel like a fish out of water.
We are finding that here in the Bible Belt it is less important which church you attend but whether you attend at all. To some, you are practically a heathen if you are skipping organized church services. Growth is optional.
For some reason we seem to have found ourselves several families that are a little disillusioned by the status quo. And the question has come up "What are you looking for in a ‘church’?" What do you think? Please answer in the poll below and leave a comment explaining.
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May 26th, 2008 at 8:26 am
“. . .when you are in the Bible Belt there are a plethora of great family encouraging, Bible teaching churches.”
That actually is true in my part of my Bible belt. There are a ton of good churches to choose from, so we’re totally spoiled.
You’re killing me with the “Only Choose ONE” poll. Good grief, one of those alone won’t make the decision for me. The doctrine’s got to be right regardless of denomination, but if there is no spiritual growth, the doctrine alone isn’t all that important anymore.
Of course we can all read the Bible ourselves, but there is maturity in accountability- which comes through fellowship.
Ya, that’s why I asked people to comment. I knew my choices were not all inclusive. At least you followed directions. ;) -Katie
May 26th, 2008 at 8:31 am
We recently switched churches. There are 4 baptist churches in this little town. We visited them all… interesting the differences. We chose the one with the same doctrine with actually MET together. Why are most churches only choosing to meet on Sunday mornings. What happened to all the other times? We LIKE church… we finally found one… and we are there when the doors are open. ;) If you know what I mean.
I’m probably one of a kind… if you look at the attendance as a judge. Not many people like attending church as much as I do, apparently.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:33 am
I had to select doctrine, because I think that is the most important thing, but I disagree with the denominations part. I think a lot of denominations have strayed from their belief statements. What I mean by that is that is important for a church to teach sound doctrine above all of those other things. We don’t necessarily stick to one denomination, though.
May 26th, 2008 at 8:51 am
None of those options work for me. I look for authentic, biblical relationships. Is Christ’s love overwhelming evident? Are the lost being saved? Are the hurting being taken care of? Are new believers being discipled to become disciples?
Irrelevant and unimportant items to me are: debating or staunch stance over non-salvation items, division between other churches because of non-salvation items, no lost being saved, no disciples being made, etc. Unfortunately, 99.9% of denominations are entirely too focused on what makes that denomination different, than on the fact we are all working together to save the lost.
In other words, I look for a church that is like Christ - loving the lost and show them the only way of salvation is through Him. It’s not about ‘SIN SIN SIN’, it’s about ‘LOVE LOVE LOVE’ and when you love someone, you want to lift them up, you want to encourage them, you want to do your absolute best for them. You lean on them to get you through the hard times, you depend on them to help you through temptation, you never do it alone.
Anyway :)
May 26th, 2008 at 9:09 am
I can’t vote as my #1 isn’t there. My top criteria for a church is the one that answers this question: “Where does God want me to be?” It’s the reason I attend where I do now because if left up to me I would have just stuck with what I was used to and would probably be pretty stagnant in my faith still.
It just so happens that this church has sound doctrine, wonderful fellowship, a convenient location, a pastor who is a good communicator, leader, encourager, teacher, empower-er (is that even a word? lol)…, phenomenal growth both inside and outside (members live their faith and impact the community whether or not those people ever step foot in the church building), amazing worship, much prayer, and many many other things. Note, those things were not necessarily listed by order of most importance. :)
I’m in the Bible Belt as well and we have tons of choices from charismatic to ultra conservative and anything you like in between. I guess it all depends on the city and state. I grew up Quaker (Society of Friends), married a Baptist and am now in a non-denominational church that is part of a group of churches started in Sydney, Austrailia but with sister churches all over the world. There is accountability that you don’t always find in the non-denom churches which I really like. We can’t have anybody getting sideways and going nuts-o on us.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:26 am
OOOOH, Hard.
I chose growth, but if I don’t like the teaching style-I’m outta there. Also true if my kids cry and balk everytime I drop them off for class- then there is something wrong there. Denomination is not so important to me, although there are definietly some that I am more comfortable and better aquainted with than others. As for relationship, that is what I am struggling with now. We have been at our church for 2 years (and the kids have gone to AWANA there for 4) but we don’t have ANY friendships inside the church apart from the one couple we knew before we started church there. It’s a little disturbing- but not enough for me to give up the teaching I have been craving for so many years!
May 26th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Oh, yeah, I lived in the Bible Belt for 4 years as a highschooloer and I would have to agree that it is more important that you make your apearance at church than that you actually learn anything. I knew of all manner of highschoolers (and I suspect it was the same in the population at large) who would be sleeping around, drinking, doing drugs, whatever right up to Saturday night when they had to get home so they could put on thier pretty Sunday dress and sandals to be at church in the morning. At least here, in the Church of Coffee capitol, people are more honest about life. If you don’t live a life like you want to be in church, you just don’t go.
May 26th, 2008 at 10:32 am
The word ‘church’ is not in the original texts of the Bible - neither the Hebrew scriptures or the Greek ‘New Testament’. The word is ‘Ekklesia’ which should be translated into English as ‘called out ones’. Jesus said that HE would build His Ekklesia. He didn’t indicate that He needed organized religion to do this. He said He would leave His Spirit to guide us. It seems easier to follow man-made rules though and not be led by the Holy Spirit. Going to a ‘church’ makes you as much a follower of God and His Word as sitting in a pasture makes you a cow. Dying to self and living a life according to His Word on a daily basis is what is commanded and of course it is not easy. If it is crowded and popular then it probably isn’t from Him.
May 26th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I couldn’t pick any of the above. Doctrine is vitally important to me, and I would always start a church hunt with my denomination of choice. But if there was no growth, no Christian fellowship, if the pastor’s teaching style was dry and distracting, I’d move on in my search. There must be a balance of truth and love. It’s a hard balance to find sometimes but well worth it when you do.
Sometimes too you have to look at a less than ideal situation and say, “What can I GIVE here.” Too often people are wanting to be entertained, and to be served, and to have every jot and tittle on their ideal list fulfilled before they’re willing to commit. We are all imperfect sinners. The church we choose will be full of imperfect sinners.
For many of us with large, homeschooling families, we’re wanting certain things out of a church. Family integration. No age segregation. No children’s church, etc. Unless we find these things, the church is not pure enough for us. We forget that rightly or wrongly, those ideas are foreign to most people outside our enlightened subculture. What we have had to do is to find a church that will respect us enough to let us quietly do what we feel the Lord’s leading is for our own family. We don’t insist that everyone does likewise. Thankfully we’ve found such a church and it’s a blessing.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am
My option wasn’t there either. We’re supposed to be the Bride of Christ, so whether a chuch is biblical or not would be my only choice. Paul did lay down guidelines for worship, so that DOES mean that we are to assemble. God wanted us to assemble and worship Him in the Old Testament, and when we’re gathered in His name….well I don’t need to go on. Those that are disillusioned with the church give the comment that short did (been there). Those of us who got past our disillusion remain part of the “universal” church (called out ones) AND a local denomination where we can serve, fellowship and support our chosen elders while we allow them to teach us from God’s word.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:33 am
First of all, I didn’t think MO was in the Bible Belt, but that makes sense. I always think of the BB as farther south. Where is that ‘belt’ anyway?
Secondly, I voted doctrine BUT…
If there is no church that meets our minimal requirements for doctrine, I don’t know what we would do. Home church? drive far and spend less money in other areas to compensate for the gas prices? Honestly, I’m not sure.
If there were several churches who met the minimal requirements, then fellowship would be the deciding factor, probably. I think that if we had a choice between a church that more fully met our doctrinal beliefs, but had a poor atmosphere of fellowship AND a church that met our basic doctrinal beliefs, but had strong fellowship, we would choose the latter.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:39 am
To me, doctrine is very important, but not the denomination. Growth is what God desires of us, but the doctrine has to be right for it to matter.
Is the pastor teaching through the Bible? All of the Bible, or just the parts the pastor likes? Do people bring a Bible with them to church, and actually open it and study it? Are there mid-week Bible studies for those who can not get to the building on Sunday mornings?
Do you have to be there every time the door is unlocked to avoid having your salvation questioned?
Are the essential doctrines for salvation held fast?
Is there liberty in the non-essentials?
Do the members of the church accept others for who they are; sinners saved by grace, just like themselves? I despise snobbery in the church.
Is there an unBiblical focus on money issues and building wealth?
Are there opportunities to serve the Lord?
These are things I would look for in a church.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I voted “growth” but I’d like to elaborate ;)
When we moved to Florida we made a list of all the things we were looking for in a church. Then we made that list into two other lists “non-negiotables” and “would be nice, but…s”
One of our non-negiotables was to be in a church where everyone is clothed. I have six sons and they are very sensitive and aware of immodestly clad women. It makes them very uncomfortable to see lots of flesh. It’s very hard to worship when you are staring at the floor for two or three hours…
I’m not talking about people wearing turtle-neck, long-sleeved, floor-length burlap bags… but bahootahs belong *inside* the shirt, not hanging out the neckhole… ya know?
They are learning how to deal with this issue “in the world” but they shouldn’t (in our opinion) have to deal with it at church.
I’m sure every family has a similar “non-negiotable” / “would be nice, but” list. There’s no *perfect* church out there and we all have to judge for our own family what areas we are willing to compromise on and which we are not.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I chose the doctrine one, thought the denomination part was not at all true for us. Denomination doesn’t matter. We are part of the Christian church, not a certain denomination. If they are preaching correct biblical teachings, then that is what should be the foundation of the church. But that is not all that is important. If the doctrine is off, then it doesn’t matter if the church is growing. Many organizations grow because people like the way the people act, or the way that things are run. That does not mean that a church that is growing is preaching the Word correctly. Look at all the cults out there. Lots of nice people and they are growing because they are out there evangelizing, but that doesn’t make what they are teaching correct.
The Bible does tell us in Hebrews 10:24-25 “..let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds,not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. ” And in Acts 2:42 it says that the believers were baptized and “They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.”
So, from my understanding, we need to make sure that we do not forsake assembling together with other believers on a regular basis, and we are to often fellowship with other believers.
That does not necessarily mean that the church of today is the only way to go, but I do think that having somewhere that is a set time and place to be fed spiritually and to have someone challenge you in an area you might not have even though of on your own, is a good practice, so that we do not forsake assembling together with other believers.
There are many other areas of “church” that are preference. What type of music, if you dress up or you wear shorts and a T-shirt, how the service is run, if you use a hymnal or put the words on a screen, etc. These are all issues that are not address in the Word, and are secondary to what the doctrine is, in my opinion.
We have not found what would be the prefect church for our family at this point, but we are being fed God’s Word and taught sound doctrine, and some of our other preferences are met there, others are not.
May 26th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I chose ‘growth’ as an answer, but I think that personal spiritual growth depends directly on doctrinal truth, fellowship with growing believers, godly leadership, and opportunities for service and study (programs). When our family has been unable to find a local organized church to provide these basics, we have variously traveled long distances, or home churched, or met in small groups with like-minded ‘unorganized’ Christians.
At this time, we are members of a Baptist church we no longer attend because they diverted from doctrinal truth. This is the basic item my husband and I feel we cannot allow deviation on. We are responsible to see that our children learn truth, no matter what else a church may have to offer in terms of ‘fun’ or other appealing, desirable or even necessary qualities. This approach has sometimes been difficult for all of us, but we have peace that we have done rightly, following God’s revealed will for us. That doesn’t mean such would be His will for all others in the same time and place.
I pray that your family can find a solution that lets you follow God’s specific will for you, and grow in your personal knowledge of Him, His Word, and His plan for your lives.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I chose doctrine because we just went through an awful situation with our church where the Pastor got into some pretty wild and MAJOR doctrinal issues and has been disciplined accordingly. (as in he no longer is allowed to Pastor the church nor within the denomination) I applaud our headship for taking such actions! Beforehand, I was in the don’t care about denomination crowd….now I have a deeper respect for being in and under proper Biblical leadership. For me doctrine must be first as all things done within the church must be Biblical whether it be how we grow, fellowship etc…… God is the God of order. Period. Now with that said… people cannot get so legalistic in their doctrine that they forget love, mercy, compassion and so on. That also is apart of doctrine! There must be a good balance of all the aspects. Of course, there is no perfect church either! ;-) Oh how I long for heaven…. =)
May 26th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
I voted for Growth because we are nothing without Christ and that process of sanctification is the natural step after sanctification/justification. Don’t we all need to be more like Jesus, and how wonderful to have loving brothers and sisters who can come alongside and encourage us as we go there together!
I almost clicked on the doctrine one, because that is very important, I believe. However, I’ve been to many churches that get hung-up on doctrinal issues that it becomes more of a legalism (I have to watch myself on this too.) than something that brings together the body of Christ. So I try to avoid those even if they are spot-on with what I believe the Bible teaches. It’s hard to find a balance between legalism and love sometimes.
We do the majority of Bible teaching and training at home and go where we find the most Bible-believing-living-honoring teaching and fellowship. We look for a place where we feel like we are part of the Body of Christ, in the broad sense, beyond the walls of the church or local fellowship.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
None of the above. I liked Crystal’s question, actually. Doctrine is important I guess in that I wouldn’t want to attend a church that wasn’t Bible believing! Other doctrinal disputes aren’t as important to me (ie baptism, communion, etc.) We attend a small, rural non-denominational Bible church. We chose it not for the programs, pastor, etc. We chose it b/c we felt the Lord wanted us to be involved in our community body…..it’s the only Bible believing church in our small community. We could have gone ten minutes in two directions and found perhaps better preaching and more programs. But, we felt called to OUR neighborhood and Christian community. We want to serve that community of people, and build relationships there. So there you have it.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Katie, I know what you’re going through because we spent 5 years in California attempting to find a church that was a “FIT” for us and have been searching five months since moving to North Carolina.
I couldn’t vote for any single one of your choices, because so many go hand in hand or can be deal breakers at the same time…
As far as growth - the churches who are so gung ho on growth, many times are caught up in the Purpose Driven Church movement and aren’t preaching the Word. They’ve turned church into a business about entertaining and bringing people in to fill the seats. I have doctrinal issues with these types of churches.
As far as doctrine - I’ve found churches that I agree with doctrinally, that have absolutely NO growth. LOL I attended one that literally had four members besides the pastor’s immediate family. It had been in existance for 8 years - with zero growth.
Fellowship is fabulous - if the church is on target doctrinally.
The pastor is very important - is he preaching the Word and not compromising God’s Truth?
Distance - can be important if you plan to be very involved, but I don’t think 5 extra miles should keep you from the RIGHT congregation either.
Programs are important - IF your family is into programs! If you are all about family integrated services and dislike children/youth programs, then programs are going to be an issue if the church you want to attend has them and pushes them.
All of these factors fit together IMO. I prefer a very conservative church - in teaching and dress and music. I prefer old fashioned hymns with some praise songs mixed in here and there, where you still sing out of a hymnal instead of reading off a projector screen. I like children’s programs and am on the fence about youth programs (although my youth group growing up was VERY important in my life.) I like a choir and an orchestra - even if it’s small. I like a preacher who tells it like it is and doesn’t worry about stepping on toes to preach biblical truths. I want a church that supports homeschooling! I DO want a church that hosts potlucks! LOL It promotes fellowship in the congregation. I want a church where the people are friendly and show Christ’s love. Where it is clearly apparent that you are welcome and they are happy to have you. And I want a church that I don’t have to drive 30 minutes to attend.
Fortunately, I think I JUST found a church that fits my big long list of “preferences” this week. I had just about settled for a church that was “nice enough” and who I agreed with doctrinally - but I had issues with modest dress of the congregation and some other (minor) things. Visiting this new church this week - I cried because it was such an ideal fit. I know people are people and no congregation is perfect, but it is wonderful to find a group of people who you are on the same page as! And it’s only 3.9 miles from my house. I am super super excited to visit again and see if this is where God wants us!
May 26th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
This is hitting too close to home for me. I can barely formulate a thought on the issue, as we are looking for a local church. I do so dislike this process.
Since the emphasis is on “local” right now, I voted “location.” We were attending a church in our last town, but our move put us half an hour away. We’ve always believed we should try to find a church in our immediate community, but one way or another, despite all our efforts, we haven’t been able to make that work, even after trying very hard, for years. In my married life, I’ve driven 20-40 minutes for two or three different periods of my life to get to a church where I truly felt at “home.”
Doctrine is important to us (essentials, mainly, but also non-essentials, to be completely honest). Frankly, we would avoid a church that would be hardline cessationist, or that had a woman pastor (or “co-pastor”). Do you know how hard it is to find a church between those criteria? :)
Then again, if the Lord so led, those issues would recede into the background, as long as the essential doctrines were biblical.
Growth and fellowship are very important to me. I personally am hoping to find an outreaching church that has ministries that might be appropriate for a mom with many children to participate in. Pastor style and programs aren’t as big a deal to me, but my husband really wants a church that has at least a little bit for the children (like, say, *other children*). I don’t mind if it’s not a majority-homeschooler church, as long as it doesn’t become an issue that we homeschool. But truth be told, I’ve been happiest at majority-homeschooler churches.
Is that mixed up enough for you? Thanks for stirring the pot here, Katie. ;)
May 27th, 2008 at 2:42 am
I put ‘I don’t know’.
It seems so hard to find somewhere that I agree with completely and that I can have real fellowship with.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:13 am
Short said “If it is crowded and popular then it probably isn’t from Him.”
I don’t want to be offensive but that is one of the most ridiculous, self-righteous things I have ever heard! Yikes!
May 27th, 2008 at 6:22 am
I voted Doctrine because since my hubby is an AOG minister we really need to be in an AOG church! LOL! But within the denomonation we look for Growth and fellowship and pastor. So I’m really all over the houses on this one. We have been in the position of working in a church that didn’t seem to have what it should have and since we were in an assistant position we found that we had very little influence to change it for the good! Talk about frustrating!!
May 27th, 2008 at 7:50 am
What? Fellowship without food? I can’t believe there’s no votes for potluck!!!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I thought ALL churches had potlucks, so I just took that as a given!! :)
Meet and eat, greet and eat, whatever. If there’s food, I’ll add listen stop by!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I thought ALL churches had potlucks, so I just took that as a given!! :)
Meet and eat, greet and eat, whatever. If there’s food, I’ll add least stop by!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I agree with you Jen. There were always crowds around Jesus. I guess He wasn’t from God, according to Short’s theology. lol
May 27th, 2008 at 11:01 am
We attend church because we like the fellowship, I like being fed the Word. There are times I read the Word and have trouble understanding it, but the pastors we’ve had have done a great job helping me understand it. The church we are attending now desires to be an Acts 2:42 church and is striving to reach out to the community which I believe is exactly what Jesus did and taught. Are things all perfect at this church? No, but I don’t think it’s possible on this side of heaven. Our family enjoys the fellowship we get there. We’ve just started a bible study group in our home as well.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:05 am
As someone who is still looking for a church home, I had to pick fellowship. We have visited many churches with a good message by the pastor, good music, and beliefs we agree with. But the people? Not friendly at all, no one welcomes newcomers and we always feel like the new kids on their first day at school.
It’s an awful feeling. Why aren’t churches more welcoming?? Too many cliques, even when we get brave and attend a small group to meet people. We still get ignored.
My husband’s vote is for growth though. At every church we try, he thinks the messages are pretty much for new/non Christians. Nothing meaty! I agree with that too. What is the problem? Whenever I speak out about this issue, I get so discouraged because it seems like everyone else is looking for a good church too and can’t find one.
Sad…I live in Arizona too by the way.
May 27th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Doctrine is very important to me, but it’s not the denominational name that makes the difference. I want a church who preaches from the Bible and believes that everything in it is true and infallible. If a church is truly teaching the Bible (and not just a few select parts), then it will be growing. And, thus, growth is also very important to me. However, the most important thing is being where I believe God has directed me. At times, I believe that He directs people to churches that are struggling or walking down the wrong path so that they can direct the church - not often, but sometimes. Anyway, those are my thoughts and the moment.
May 28th, 2008 at 7:41 am
*I am not disillusioned. Organised ‘church’ started long after Jesus walked on earth. Not even the first Believers in Him had ‘church’ - especially not in the format that it is today.
* I never said anything about not congregating together. That is important and there are guidelines in the Word about how to do that, especially in the different countries and cities that Paul wrote to.
* It really would be nice to know that people in His Body (even those that go to ‘church’) don’t mock and ridicule as you have. Space and time didn’t allow for me to expand on my very brief definition and I do not speak American and neither is English my first language. But that’s ok. I am far from perfect and make plenty mistakes and thankfully my God gives grace to me and forgives me for not agreeing with your opinions.
For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it. Matthew 7:14 Sounds very self righteous to me…….
May 28th, 2008 at 8:43 am
I chose doctrine but ‘growth’ is a close second. I could not attend anywhere where I disagreed on doctrine, but I have been in some where the doctrine was ‘correct’ but the church was ‘dead’ We had an awful time finding a good church in NY. Now that we are in TX we are in a wonderful doctrinally correct and growing church :) (which is Baptist btw lol)
May 28th, 2008 at 10:31 am
I chose “Pastor’s style” but like many have said, I really seek more than just the one option I chose. I chose style, b/c at our church (which is an AG) our Pastor stresses knowing the Word and “checking out” what he preaches rather than just blindly listening and believing his every word. I’m not stuck on any one denomination. I grew up Catholic but my first “post Catholic” church home was an AG church my friend recommended. I loved it there. However, if I ever felt I was being called out of that church, I wouldn’t immediately search out an AG just because we’re now in an AG church. It would involve much prayer and checking out more than a few churches. Even though I had previously thought that loving and knowing God could be accomplished without an organized church, I’ve come to cherish the friendships and support that I’ve found in my church. I really do feel that I’ve met people that have enhanced my walk with the Lord and helped me to grow.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I couldn’t vote as nothing really fit. We have given up the traditional, what my husband likes to call “institutional”, church. We are the church, the body of Christ. The church isn’t a building. The church is the people of God. We are part of the church whether we go to a building on Sunday or not. So, I guess you could say I fit in the “organized religion is a farce” group? But not really.
While I can read the Bible by myself, the church was never meant to be individualistic. There are a whole lot of “each other”s in the Bible. We need one another. We need to be a part of the church body. What we don’t need is the trappings of man. And really? A whole lot of what goes on in America’s “church” buildings are just that. Man. I’ve been doing some studying on the topic recently (”Pagan Christianity” by Frank Viola and George Barna is an excellent, mind-blowing read, by the way) and have been so amazed by what I’m learning. I’ve questioned many of the things that are done in America’s “church” buildings, wondering where in the Bible we get the idea for some of these things, for a while now. But, just went ahead with the status quo. Amazingly, or maybe not!, most of it isn’t actually found in the Bible! Breaking free from that has been so…well…freeing.
We are currently meeting with other members of the body of Christ on a mostly weekly basis in one of our homes. We are still learning what exactly the church, as Christ intended, should look like, but we are learning and growing together. And we are striving to imitate Christ.
And that is what I would look for in the church. That they are seeking to be more like Him and less like the world. And frankly, that seems pretty hard to do in a building, when you, out of necessity, must be concerned about finance, property, salaries, landscaping, yellow page ads, pastors, “the presentation”, etc.
Anyway, I hesitate to press submit. I know these are not mainstream views. But they are mine. And you asked :)
May 30th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
I remember once when we were attending a very “non-traditional” church, and the main pastor and worship leader were up front laughing about how we “brand” ourselves. Even “non-trad” has a certain look, feel and way of doing things! I was glad that at least they could laugh at themselves. LOL!
I’m really seeking authenticity. That’s what it is, I guess. Manifest presence of the living God, real relationships. Is that so much to ask? LOL!
June 1st, 2008 at 1:18 am
We are currently searching for a new church, or will be once we move into our ‘new’ house. We have moved 4 times (varying lengths of stay at each place) in the last 4 years and so will be on our 4th church in our 4 years of being married. We’ve been through this a few times recently. =) I chose “doctrine” though, like others, it isn’t so much the denomination. Being that I grew up in one demonimation, we have stuck with that one the past two moves (longest stays in one place), but probably won’t go there again this time. Unfortunantly I have found that though the doctrine is close to what we both believe, it has been hard to feel like a part of the group. We went for months without anyone inviting us over or out to lunch or even stopping us to see how the week went. That is such a lonely feeling. The last church, we found out that everyone had graduated from the same christian college (we both went to a public college). That really made for a divide in the conversations. While the fellowship aspect is not necessarily denomination related, it is starting to form a pattern to make us feel like it is. So, that long explaination to say that although doctrine plays a part in the initial step, there is more to it after that. Friendships and growth are two important parts, though there is something to say if a church gets too large. (hard to fellowship with people, to get involved, to have that ‘family’ feel, etc.) We have found a church that we like . . . but it is 2 hours away. Location is another factor as we won’t drive 2 hours to go to a church where we can’t become part of the family. Whether it is a traditional church or otherwise, I do believe that it is important to gather with other believers regularly to worship. It also helps provide accountability and encouragement.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:15 am
The sequel to “Pagan Christianity?” is out now. It’s called “Reimagining Church”. It picks up where “Pagan Christianity” left off and continues the conversation. (“Pagan Christianity” was never meant to be a stand alone book; it’s part one of the conversation.) “Reimagining Church” is endorsed by Leonard Sweet, Shane Claiborne, Alan Hirsch, and many others. You can read a sample chapter at
http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org
It’s also available on Amazon.com. Frank is also blogging now at http://www.frankviola.wordpress.com